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{'id': '0vb9p21kf-49f7-4d61-9f35-70133d497604', 'text': "Everybody needs money that's why they call it money or you can give them to the present from cool global headquarters. This is monthly full money it's the molecule money radio show I'm Chris Hill joining me this week's senior analyst Emily Flippin and Jason MOS are good to see you both. Add he we've got the latest headlines from Wall Street Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson is our guest this week and as always we've got a couple of stocks on our radar. But we begin with the big banks, City Group Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase all out with earnings reports on Friday morning. Jason, you host the financials episode of our industry focus podcast every Monday, am I wrong or was JP Morgan's fourth quarter. The most impressive of this group. No you're definitely not wrong. I would agree with that. I mean to me, there are the big banks. And then there is JP Morgan it's the bank that stands out among the rest and I think that's for a few reasons I think when you look at the banks in total, JP Morgan City Group Wells Fargo. They were all pretty good reports in relatively speaking, right? I think JP Morgan is the bank that has performed the best throughout the past several years because of leadership primarily. I think that Jamie Dimon he's been the CEO of a company since 2,006 he has always taken this philosophy of making sure that they are never caught. Essentially asleep at the wheel, so to speak. Right there's a section on their earnings report called fortress principles. And that just goes back to the idea that they're creating a balance sheet that will let them withstand any type of economic crisis and clearly they've been through a couple. At least Wells Fargo. Clearly a story of turnaround still. I think that going into this quarter. The thing that I was watching. Most was sort of the status of all of the reserves that these banks have been putting aside here over the past several quarters based on the pandemic, the economic conditions that have come from what we've been going through going into this quarter, JP Morgan, for example, had side about 34,000,000,000 dollars in reserves and so during this quarter, they were actually able to release close to 3,000,000,000 dollars of those reserves and that's good, right that's a sign that they believe things for getting better. I think they'll continue to slowly, but surely release those reserves. A city group. Very similar story they're able to re release one and a half billion dollars in reserves. Wells Fargo, you know, this is still a turnaround story, right? I think they're doing the right things. But Mr Sharp. There has certainly been dealt a tougher deck. Anytime. You get a turn around a company it's difficult, particularly when that turn around is related to a relatively toxic culture and I think we could say that culture was toxic for a while. So a lot of respect for what they're doing at Wells Fargo they've still got a little ways to go, but all in all. I think these results portend a pretty good year for for these banks to come here. I 2,010 1 on our year in review show a few weeks ago, Ron Gross said the 2,020 was the year that the blockbuster IPO returned to Wall Street. And that trend appears to have spilled over into 2,021 because this week we saw a bunch of splashy IPOs, including shares of Poshmark rising more than 130% on its opening day. And PETCO shares of 60% on its opening day, Emily, there were other IPOs I'm curious based on what you've seen so far. What stands out to you it's funny, because as an investor, I really didn't have a lot of fear about Frosty IPOs until this week. I made it through the entirety of 2,020 but we really instilled fear. Into me as an investor is looking at PECO's IPO. Mostly because I looked at their s one when they filed it in late 2,019 and it was amazing to me, what a bad company. This was sure not to sugar code. They are turnaround story. But even in fiscal year 2,019 so Pre pandemic. This was a business that still produced more than 100,000,000 dollars in net losses. So not a sustainably profitable business. It was a business that's highly indebted owned by a PE firm. And has margins that are worse than their peers. So by no means, was this a business that I was particularly excited about? And when I heard that Petco was going public, I judged to myself as an investor in chewy, which is partly owned by pet smart thinking. This is a business that is trying to capitalize on the hype and excitement around pets during the pandemic. It's smart of them to try to get some value out of the equity during this time. But I think investors are smart enough not to buy it. And when I see shares up nearly on opening day, it occurred to me. Maybe not all investors. Jason. Another IP we saw was a firm which is a fin tech company looking to disrupt the credit card industry. Shares of a firm doubled on its opening day. What do you make of that business? I mean fintech and SAS, right? If you want to really Garner, some support from the market. Just classify yourself as a fintech or say you put those two together and the possibilities are limitless. I think in a firm's case, this is a company that's focused now on this sort of burgeoning buy now pay later market. Right? It's this market that's just really starting to come into the consumer. A mindset here and that you could buy something. Now and you can pay for it incrementally over time. And that really is what a firm is all about. They make their money a couple of different ways for merchant customers, they earn a fee when they help them, actually convert that sale. And then from consumers, they earn a little bit of interest in. Come on those loans, essentially when they're doing those buy now pay later deals. You can believe that in today's environment that's not the most attractive line of business in that interest. Income given where rates are today, but I think I part of the enthusiasm behind this company. It is something that I think I noted this on Monday's market. Full ragers, this notion. Now that consumers are really happy to turn to technology companies. They trust in order for financial services and there was a survey conducted by the Harris poll back in 2,020 we're 64% of Americans would consider purchasing or applying for financial products through a technology company's platform. Instead of a traditional financial services provider and then that sentiment actually rises to 81% Americans age between 18 and 30 40 years. And that really is the target demographic for affirms customer. So I'm not saying the valuation makes sense but I do understand the enthusiasm. Something to keep an eye on their top merchant partner is Peloton responsible for about 30% of the company's revenue right now, I would rather see them diversify away and not be so levered of one particular company. I suspect that'll come in time in addition to IPOs, it was also a week of notable secondary offerings zoom. Video announced it's going to raise one and a half billion dollars through a secondary stock offering and lemonade announced a 3,000,000 Share secondary stock offering that they are planning. Emily, you buy neither of these companies were particularly punished by the market for these secondary. Offerings and while I have my own reservations about eliminate, I think it's fair to say both Limonade and zoom investors are not investing in these businesses because they expect for them to buy back shares or issue. Dividends they're expecting growth. And so when you look at these businesses eliminate unprofitable but looking to raise money, you have to ask yourself. Okay, what is the business going to do with this money in the case of zoom they're profitable, but raising more than one and a half billion dollars investors, ask themselves. Man that's a lot of cash. What do I think zoom is going to do with one and a half billion dollars? So growth, investors are definitely expecting zoom to maybe reach out to acquire expand their product suite. So I'm looking forward to potentially some exciting acquisitions coming from zoom and in the case of lemonade, raising more than 500,000,000 dollars from their 3,000,000 SHARES additional issued they're looking at expanding their insurance suite. So getting into things like life insurance that's what investors in these businesses want to happen? Right? They want for them to continue to expand growth. Even if it is at the cost of further dilution, so neither is particularly bad. Expect for the stock to be under a little bit of pressure that's understandable but long term. If they reinvest this money to support growth, all fine and dandy like you, Emily. I was struck by the fact that on the day that both of these were announced and they were announced on the same day, shares of both companies were up typically when the average company comes out and announces a secondary stop offering. We see a little bit of a sell off is that more unsettling to you than what we saw from PECO's IPO or PECO's IPO still number one on your fear. Inducing list, Teco IPO definitely wins for number one on my fear inducing list. I think if I was an investor and businesses like Liminator zoom, I would ask myself. What are they going to do with that money if you are raising equity but you do not create value from whatever you reinvest it into and it eventually does need to turn into cash value cash creation if they're not able to do that. Then it would concern me more. But I believe especially in the case of zoom, that they'll be able to do something really smart with that money. Coming up, a consumer goods giant unveils the product launch. We never knew we wanted until right now details after the break to stay right here you're listening to Motley full money. Welcome back to Motley, full money. Chris Hill here with Jason Moser and Emily flipping a year ago, one of the big stories in the financial industry was Visa. The acquisition of PLA. A fin tech startup company in a deal. Worth more than 5,000,000,000 dollars this week Visa said the deal is off due to antitrust concerns raised by the U. S Department of justice shares a visa down 6% this week. What do you think? Jason should Visa have fought Uncle Sam to push this one through and there are just so many great Spaceballs jokes that came from this deal and I'm sorry to see a die. But I, I do think that with Visa. I think they saw the writing on the wall when regulators are already referring to you as a monopoly it's going to be an uphill battle, though. It's worth noting in November that MasterCard was allowed to buy Finity which is a very similar style business of fintech business. I think a lot of that has to do with fact MasterCard a smaller business with smaller share in the debit market and I think that was regulators concerns was the potential for visas monopoly status in the debit market that really would have been difficult to overcome with Plat acquisition because while Plad doesn't really have a status in the debit market today it's a fin tech company. It is working on building these types of tools that enable money to get from point a to point B more quickly and more cheaply. So I think on the flip, this certainly opens up another opportunity for an IPO to triple in its first day of trading because I would imagine Plat eventually is going to go public. But I do understand regulators concerns there now, with that said this is really all about the evolution of how we move money around. Technology is changing it and bringing costs down considerably that's nothing new Visa and MasterCard toll booth models, they work well today. They've worked well for a long time, but they're not UN disruptive. Right, nothing really is. This is a situation where you get a couple of companies, massive market capitalizations closing. And I think on a bet, a combined 1,000,000,000,000 dollar market capitalization with the two of them. They have a ton of resources and the ability to compete. So I don't think this is something that is devastating to Visa's business. It definitely has to kind of send it back to the drawing board to see how they want to pursue this idea going forward in regards to fintech and the way technology is changing. The space shares of beyond meet up more than this week on the news of an unlikely new partner. Taco Bell that's right. Taco Bell is looking to bring in vegetarian customers and says it will be testing a new menu item later this year with a Beyond meat product. Emily, why not, Chris? I don't appreciate your sarcasm. If I'm honest with you, the tone of your voice. The way you say Taco Bell. I feel personally a little bit attacked. I think that the people who are Taco Bell like, lifestyle enthusiasts may also feel a little bit attacked, but this is actually a great deal for Beyond meat. The reason is is because food service sales were beyond meat over the past. Few quarters have been extremely tough. And the stock's been under a lot of pressure because of the fall off from restaurant sales. As a result of the pandemic. So getting deals with fast food and fast casual restaurants is critical for bringing Beyond Meat back to growth. And the reason why this is so big. And the reason why it's up 15% on a simple deal with Taco Bell. Which is great, by the way, is because they actually won this out over competitors back in 2,019 Taco Bell met with a Beyond Meat competitor that's impossible foods to potentially roll. Something out and they decided not to take that partnership and this year going with Taco Bell going with Beyond Meat says something about its product. And I look forward to both investing and beyond meat seeing where that brings the company, but also consuming whatever delicious creation. These two companies come up with Taco Bell lifestyle. Enthusiasts can send their angry emails to me at radio tech giant Intel is getting its third CEO in the past three years. Bob Swan is stepping down next month VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger will take over it Intel, the immediate reaction from Wall Street was clear shares of Intel up 15% this week, VMware shares down 5% Jason Yeah, well, I mean, remember we're talking about JP Morgan and the advantage of having a focused leadership for so long there in Jamie Dimon. I mean, Intel that's kind of the opposite. Right 3 3 CEOs and three years that's not what you really are aiming for. I think Intel's problems, transcend leadership. I think it could be argued. Their troubles are a direct result of kind of wanting to have their cake and eat it too as a designer and a manufacturer and it's really slowed them down. And I think for Intel they really need to choose use a lane and to that point, they kind of have they've been transitioning away from a PC based company. More to a data centric company and that certainly is a very big universe data center. You go a lot of different ways with that. I think that that Mr Swan, he doesn't have the tech background that doesn't really seem ideal? So that could have been a problem conversely. You look at a company like Qualcom. For example, even outgoing CEO Mr Malincon and incoming CEO Christian man. They both have electrical engineering background, so I think that's really helped Qualcom calls through the years. I actually think that in this case for Intel. They may be thinking they need to find a meaningful acquisition as soon as possible in order to get things moving because turning things around at this stage of the game for a tech company like this one, things are already moving so quickly it's going to be really difficult. And then you look at the overall environment here Qualcomm just making an acquisition of Novia for 1.4 billion dollars. You got Invidia an arm merging Marvel acquiring Infi AMD acquiring silent. I mean they're just consolidation going on in this space and Intel it's a big company with a lot of resources. But they're kind of getting left in the dust. Here and if you look at just Qualcomm's performance compared to Intel over the last several years, Qualcomm is just leaving them in the dust. And so I think it's going to be a big challenge for Intel. And maybe new leadership is the answer because it doesn't seem like they've really found the right mind yet to take this company to the next level real quick. Pat Gelsinger does have a tech background. He was the first ever. Chief technology officer at Intel he's going back to Intel, how long before we know if he's the right person for the job a year? Well, I think years a fair number to at least start assessing because you've given them a full four quarters to report and demonstrate what the strategy is. Much more than that, though. Like I said, this space moves really fast. So they've got to really good things going exciting news this week from Unilever. The consumer product parent company of Ben and Jerry's this week. The ice cream maker is launching doggy desserts. A line of frozen treats available online and in grocery stores. Emily I saw this news and I thought, well that's cute. And then I realized, no, this isn't just cute. This is really smart business. So this is playing off of a longer term trend that we've seen in the pet space it's the same thing that's catalyzed thing, chewy and this crazy Petco IPO it's that people love their pets and that really shouldn't be a surprise. These are people who treat their pets like kids. And as results are willing to do anything. And in this case, pay anything to make their pets lives as wonderful as possible. And it's actually amazing to me that we didn't think about things like pet or dog. In this case, ice cream earlier. But this is where Ben and Jerry's is going expanding their product line into pets. The issue here isn't pet ice cream is the fact that this dog ice cream looks so good. I think I might eat it, Emily. Flipping Jason Moser will see you later in the show. Up next, a conversation with Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson. Stay right here you're listening to Motley full money to welcome back to monthly. Full money I'm Chris Hill. One of the best performing stocks over the past five years is Twilio. The cloud communications platform that adds messaging voice and video to mobile apps and apps on the web. Twilio shares have risen more than the 100% since 2,016 Jeff Lawson is a software developer who also happens to be a Co founder and the CEO of Twilio. He just published his first book. Ask your developer how to harness the power of software, developers and win in the 21 St century. He recently talked with Motley Fool Co founder David Gardner and tech analyst Tim buyers about how Twilio is organized the values that guide the company and of course, software. The amazing thing about software is that you can continually iterate on it you're never done. You can always listen to your customers and hear something better that you could be doing. Get a new feature request or even if it's something simple like making it faster or whatever there's always ways in which you can improve the software. And that creates kind of a cycle of continuous improvement. But in the market of also competition between companies who want your business and that pace of software you hear like the business world is getting in faster and faster. And a lot of that is because of software because software invites you to continually iterate and make it better and better and better to think about all those apps on your phone. They're downloading updates now, kind of silent. You don't even know it you're getting new versions of those apps pretty much every week they're fixing bugs they're getting better. And they're adding new features and functionality that are going to make your use of that app even better. So that's really, the Super power of the world of software and that's one of the re reasons why it's so important for companies to really embrace that. Because if your competitors are really embracing that and iterating quickly and running a lot of experiments to figure out what customers want and they don't want and you're not you're relatively static. You wrote the software a few years ago and you just let it sit there. Well, guess who customers are going to actually find to be a better option. The company that's always testing and iterating and getting better and better and better and that's why it becomes a little self fulfilling. You mentioned that Twilio provides the infrastructure for developers and companies to be able to do that and you're right. We arose because software, developers and the companies who employ them saw the need to work more iteratively and to move faster. And therefore infrastructure like Twilio or Amazon Web services or Stripe arose to serve those customers to enable them to meet the cadence of software and to serve their customers at Internet scale and Internet speed. But then because we exist now, more companies can get on that bandwagon. And more companies can execute with that iterative spirits. And then that makes the importance of it even more for every company. And so it would be really is folding into this whole build versus dieting. Because just the nature of business and the speed of iteration and the speed of competition has just accelerated in recent years. Because of that power of software it's just kind of built in Yeah, really well put if and you know, I think about. Well, I used to stay around the halls of foolish to whoever has the most techies wins and so I'm very much, I guess. Sympatico with you on this and that's been part of how I think about every industry when I pick stocks. So you ask the developer who has the developers, many of our viewers who have not yet gotten to see your wonderful book don't know that the title comes directly from. Well, basically, a billboard that you put outside the Silicon Valley private drive by and you were working with the marketing team and nobody came up with a good idea. And you finally just said, let's go ask the developer, which is a brilliant stroke. So this has to be one of the few books that I can think of that started with a billboard as the title eventually of the book. I want to just shift briefly to Amazon. You speak highly of Amazon, Jeff, both of your time there and where it is today, of course and that's been another long term hold for us. A great company specifically, though, Jeff, you credit Amazon for the inspiration for organizing in small teams I'm curious if you'd like to just lay that out a little bit for our members. So they can hear and understand what that means and then maybe was there another best practice that you learned from Amazon. Absolutely most companies there's a tendency as they get bigger and bigger. And bigger they slow down. They get more bureaucratic and decision making gets obfuscated and the employee base just kind of lose its energy that it might have had when it was a startup, right that's the natural tendency of companies and here's. The interesting thing about Amazon. I got hired there in 2,004 my friend Dave Chapelle hired me and the company he had started at Amazon when they were about 100 people. I got hired in companies about 5,000 people. Dave promptly quit. He was like okay I've been here long enough. He left shortly after I got there. He went and started to start up and that startup later got acquired back by Amazon and when Dave landed back at Amazon, the company was 75,000 okay, so here's this guy, my friend, Dave who's like you've been at this company. You saw it at 100 people, you saw that 5,000 people and now you see it at 75,000 people and I called him up one day. This is about 2,011 because I was starting to skill 12 and I'm. Like, how do I make some good decisions here? I said, Dave, can you compare and contrast those three versions of Amazon 100 people 5,000 people, 75,000 people because it must be totally different and you thought about it for a minute. You said, you know what it's exactly the same the same energy, the same drive, the same bounce and people step the same Intellectively employee base like it's the same company. I just I work with 100 people closest to me, I would just have no idea that there's like 75,000 other groups of those people all around the company because it feels like that same startup I joined in 19 97 and I thought that is astounding. And the secret to that is keeping it small small teams. And when you build a company when you're growing the company. The goal is to try to keep that energy. That intrinsic drive that every employee has in the early days of a startup and replicate it many many, many times over as you get bigger. And the way to do that is to continually divide the company and divide the mission of the company. Into small teams teams have no more than say 10 people and organize those teams around three things. Number one, a customer, number two. The mission for what they're trying to solve for that customer and three the metrics of success to tell you if they're actually succeeding in that an effort. And with those three things now what you've done is you've unleashed that team's ability to go Sprint for that customer every day and to go innovate and try to be as autonomous and independent as possible and in that small group setting, every member is really connected to the customer and really connected to the mission because it's small again. And you think about a small team of say, 10 people if there's a low performer on that team or someone who's checked out you're not going to get by for long in that type of environment. Whereas if you're one of 500 or people on a team you're like, yeah it's easy to kind of get lost in the shuffle. But when you're want to 10 people with a strong sense of ownership over what you're trying to accomplish somebody who's checked out won't make it very long and everybody is very close to the decision making and very close to the customer they're serving and I think that's the magic of how you scale a company. While keeping everybody really motivated, really driven and coming from a position of really understanding why they're there and what success looks like at the local level at their team. Level and, Jeff, have you just described how Twilio is organized? Yeah, so that's how we've done it as well? And I talk in the book, it sounds easier said than done, because you're like, okay. So if you're a small company or start up, okay, I got 10 people. If you're a big company you have a new initiative, maybe it's got to 10 people but then it's succeeding and it starts growing. So it becomes 20 people or 30 people are like, what do I do now, my team. That was nice and small, just got big. Well, the answer is you have to keep it's like a mitosis process. You keep dividing the team and you divide the missions and you divide. Actually, the technology like the code behind it so that you can continually dividing back into small teams. That tackle various parts of the business. But every team in that story is connected to a mission and has a lot of drive to do that thing, really well. And so I talk in the book about how you can scale something whether it's a startup or whether it's an initiative inside of a bigger company and continually divide it to keep that entrepreneurial spirit even as the company or the initiative continues to grow. Jeff, do you think that's indicative of the way you talk a little bit in the book about how you try to make the values very actionable and Twilio has if you look at it and I encourage anybody if you're an investor, thinking about investing in Twilio. Definitely take a look at the site and the list of values that Twilio has one of them is where the customer shoes you talk about this in the book and it seems like what you're talking about just there about dividing into small team is sort of a way to actionable where the customer shoes. Because if you have a huge team, most of the people can't be near the customer. But how do you make it where say, like the accountants are near to the customer, like there's only so many people that can be near to the customer could. But can you talk a little bit about this value and how you get everybody a little bit closer to the customer. Well, you know it's interesting when you think about it. Companies in the early days. Of a company I'll talk about the early days of Twilio. Yep, in any given day, like, I might be writing some code talking to a customer who's like a sales prospect supporting a customer with customer support and paying some bills. Like you're doing everything. And as companies grow, the tendency of course, is for there to be silos because people get more functional. You hire experts to do each of those things right? And there's a lot of great things about hiring. An amazing customer support team so that the developers who are building the product don't have to answer the support ticket. Obviously that is beneficial. But the problem is if you let it go too far. You end up putting these walls up that separate all the functions. And you can have a sales team who's doing sales and like their job would be to not have to bring the developers into every conversation with a customer, right? You've got sales engineers to do that right or the customer support team, there job is to answer the support tickets as opposed to having the engineers have to do it all. And if you do it perfectly, what you've done is with all good intentions. You have accidentally siloed the people building your product from the very customers they're building it for. And again, it all came from good intentions, including product managers, many product managers see their job as protecting their team from the distraction of customers. And I think the best product managers are those who see their job as facilitating interactions between their team and their customers and it's not every interaction. But if you don't poke holes in those walled silos that arise in the company, then, yes, you will isolate your team from the very customers are trying to serve. I love the story of one of the product leaders at Tulio his name is Ben and he started his career. His first job out of college was he was a developer at Bloomberg writing software for the terminals and he got there, bright eyed and bushy tailed and showed up and he said to his manager you're like, hey. So when do we get to go to a trading floor to talk to traders who are using our software and the manager kind of laughed and said, Oh that's a funny idea. Right we've never actually done that and Ben was a little Dumbfound he's like, you mean you've never met a customer that uses the software that we every day. He show up and he was like, well, not really. So Ben actually just found his own path. He went and found a friend of his. Who was a trader and he said can you mind if I stopped by one? So Ben showed up at the trading floor and they had always assumed that their widget that they were building. Like, they spent every day buiding this widget. They assumed it was the full 27 inch screen was their beautiful widget. Well, it turns out that the trader had and some time you little 16 by 16 bucks in the corner of their screen and it wasn't even legible. You couldn't read the fonts and it was completely different than how they imagined their software was used and it wasn't until they actually went and interacted with a customer that they actually found out. And then that changed their roadmap, entirely, we got to make fonts that work at small scale. We got to change the and all these things happen. So I share that example in the book because it's a really good example of what happens when you actually don't win. Those walls between you and the customer are so tall that you actually have no idea how your customers actually using your product. And so as leaders, I think it's our job to intentionally poke holes in those walls that separate our teams. From the customers they serve, Jeff Lawson's book is ask your developer how to harness the power of software, developers and win in the 21 St entry it's. Already an Amazon bestseller, so check it out when you can. Up next, Emily flipping and Jason Mosa return with a couple of stocks on their radar don't go anywhere you're listening to mode. Full money was one for a moment in time and it's everlasting that you will always be. As always. People on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about in the monthly for may have formal recommendation for or against don't. Buy our sell stocks based sold on what you hear Welcome back to Motley. Full money, Chris Hill here once again with Jason Moser and Emily Flippin let's dip into the full mail bag before we get to the stocks on our radar. Our email address is radio at fool. Com I know the Taco Bell lifestyle enthusiasts are already typing out their emails, but we also take stock questions like this one from Kyle Newberger who writes love the show, keep it coming. This question may seem simple. But in your experience, when should you sell a stock if ever. A great question. Kyle. Thank you for that, Jason. This is one we get often from people because it's one of those things, particularly in the wake of where are we now year 11 year 12 of by and large a bull market. People who are sitting on some gains are trying to figure out whether or not they should sell at least some of their stocks. Yeah, I mean it's something that I think we all think about it. It may seem like a simple question. But really, I think it's far more nuanced. And when we look at insiders, for example, that own stakes and the companies that they lead we talk about those Insider transactions we kind of say. And Peter literally really popularize is one reason to buy you got many, many reasons to sell. And that really is the bottom line is there are many, many reasons to it does depend on the individual where they are in their life. I think just a general rule of thumb, though, if you're sort of younger investor with a lot of time in front of you. You look at selling a stock number one. Have the reasons that you bought it change right are the reasons you purchase that stock in the first place? Have those reasons changed if they have? Then you do a little bit more of an assessment there. Do you feel like still offers opportunity? If it doesn't I mean, there could be some reasons to sell there. If the thesis is broken on the reasons have changed but clearly there are going to be many many more reasons. Someone needs to consider it and it really kind of depends on where you are in your life and kind of what you need to do with that money. What your investing goals really are, Emily. Obviously some people if they've been investing for a while, maybe they look at the stocks that aren't doing as well in their portfolio and look to sell those off. Sometimes for tax reasons, how do you think about selling? Yes, well, there are two biggest mistakes that investors can make. One is not buying companies that end up being disruptors. And game changers that become the next Amazon and Netflix. And the second one is selling those companies too early. So if you're an investor is looking at their portfolio and feeling the need to sell for issues of valuation. Just remember that good companies that our disruptors are hard to value for a reason and they end up growing longer and faster than many people expect. So that alone, in my opinion isn't a good reason to sell. But what is a good reason to sell is when the thesis for only the company has changed. Maybe that means that it's been a bad performer anything to yourself. This money could better be invested in a disruptor in a company that I have higher conviction that's a perfectly fine reason. Or another perfectly fine reason is if you find yourself staying up at night worrying about companies because they've come such a large part of your portfolio. If you find yourself constantly a friend of the fact that you have maybe of your portfolio and Shopify just to name one. Even though you believe in Shopify. I think selling that to get it to the point where you're not losing sleep when you're not feeling stressed over your allocation is also a perfectly fine reason. We got just a couple of minutes left. Let's get to the socks on our radar. Jason Europe first, Dan boy is going to hit you with a question. What are you looking at this week? Yeah I've been digging into a company called penumbra ticker is pen and this is a global healthcare company. That designs develops manufacturers and markets. Medical devices and technology focused on Neurovascular and cardiovascular applications. The numbers are pretty astounding, actually. On a global basis stroke is the second leading cause of death. The third leading cause of serious long term disability. And that really is the problem that penumbra is trying to tackle founder led business cofounders there still in a little bit of a stake in the company. I think it's really neat. But what really has my attention? Is this real immersive system that they developed it's an advanced rehabilitation technology that uses virtual reality for therapeutic activities. So you talk about folks who have strokes and the need rehabilitation while they're trying to tackle that using immersive technology. And so it has definitely got my attention. It says the management that it represents by far, the largest total market opportunity. That pin number has ever taken on. So got my attention. Dan question about penumbra. Yeah, sure, Jason. It looks like late last year penumbra had some recall issues. Is that anything to worry about going forward? It is something always to keep an eye on with medical device makers recalls or kind of part and parcel of the business. It does look like something that they have. You know accounted for. But but it's always something to keep in mind it's a risk that comes with these types of companies for sure. Emily flipping what are you looking at? If I was smart, I would have talked about bark box today with all the bad news. But the company that's on my radar this week is actually Pinterest with all the excitement that Poshmark is getting in the news it's reminding me about Pinterest which is a social media meets ecommerce business that I like a lot more than Poshmark. Pinterest has over 400,000,000 monthly active users and it's just at the precipice of effectively monetizing that audience. Dan. Not really a question. Chris. More of a comment. Pinterest terrifies me because I know whenever my wife is on it, it means that an impending large purchase is going to happen. Maybe that means it's a good business. It does, Dan I'm assuming you never make large purchases of any kind. What do you want to add to your watch list this week? Listen, man I've seen it happen. So many times I'm going with Pinterest. I think they're onto something over there. All right, Jason Moser. Emily flipping thanks for being here. Thank you, thanks for having me. That's going to do it for this week's show. The show's mixed by Dan Boyd. Our producers Mac career I'm Chris health. 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those reserves and that's good, right that's a sign that they believe things for getting better.", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9637467861175537}], 'timestamp': {'start': 125670, 'end': 154480}}, {'text': "But even in fiscal year 2,019 so Pre pandemic. This was a business that still produced more than 100,000,000 dollars in net losses. So not a sustainably profitable business. It was a business that's highly indebted owned by a PE firm. And has margins that are worse than their peers. So by no means, was this a business that I was particularly excited about?", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.986158549785614}], 'timestamp': {'start': 256160, 'end': 280310}}, {'text': "And when I heard that Petco was going public, I judged to myself as an investor in chewy, which is partly owned by pet smart thinking. This is a business that is trying to capitalize on the hype and excitement around pets during the pandemic. It's smart of them to try to get some value out of the equity during this time. But I think investors are smart enough not to buy it. And when I see shares up nearly on opening day, it occurred to me.", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9878888726234436}], 'timestamp': {'start': 280460, 'end': 310370}}, {'text': "We never knew we wanted until right now details after the break to stay right here you're listening to Motley full money. Welcome back to Motley, full money. Chris Hill here with Jason Moser and Emily flipping a year ago, one of the big stories in the financial industry was Visa. The acquisition of PLA. A fin tech startup company in a deal. Worth more than 5,000,000,000 dollars this week Visa said the deal is off due to antitrust concerns raised by the U.", 'labels': [{'label': 'negative_news', 'confidence': 0.9163654446601868}], 'timestamp': {'start': 601410, 'end': 633300}}, {'text': "I think that the people who are Taco Bell like, lifestyle enthusiasts may also feel a little bit attacked, but this is actually a great deal for Beyond meat. The reason is is because food service sales were beyond meat over the past. Few quarters have been extremely tough. And the stock's been under a lot of pressure because of the fall off from restaurant sales. As a result of the pandemic. So getting deals with fast food and fast casual restaurants is critical for bringing Beyond Meat back to growth.", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9920920133590698}], 'timestamp': {'start': 789050, 'end': 818080}}, {'text': "That designs develops manufacturers and markets. Medical devices and technology focused on Neurovascular and cardiovascular applications. The numbers are pretty astounding, actually. On a global basis stroke is the second leading cause of death. The third leading cause of serious long term disability. And that really is the problem that penumbra is trying to tackle founder led business cofounders there still in a little bit of a stake in the company. I think it's really neat. But what really has my attention?", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9988242983818054}], 'timestamp': {'start': 2167570, 'end': 2195020}}, {'text': "Is this real immersive system that they developed it's an advanced rehabilitation technology that uses virtual reality for therapeutic activities. So you talk about folks who have strokes and the need rehabilitation while they're trying to tackle that using immersive technology. And so it has definitely got my attention. It says the management that it represents by far, the largest total market opportunity. That pin number has ever taken on. So got my attention. Dan question about penumbra. Yeah, sure, Jason.", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9873561859130859}], 'timestamp': {'start': 2195030, 'end': 2224900}}, {'text': "It looks like late last year penumbra had some recall issues. Is that anything to worry about going forward? It is something always to keep an eye on with medical device makers recalls or kind of part and parcel of the business. It does look like something that they have. You know accounted for. But but it's always something to keep in mind it's a risk that comes with these types of companies for sure. Emily flipping what are you looking at?", 'labels': [{'label': 'health_issues', 'confidence': 0.9293511509895325}], 'timestamp': {'start': 2225020, 'end': 2247470}}]}}
Everybody needs money that's why they call it money or you can give them to the present from cool global headquarters. This is monthly full money it's the molecule money radio show I'm Chris Hill joining me this week's senior analyst Emily Flippin and Jason MOS are good to see you both. Add he we've got the latest headlines from Wall Street Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson is our guest this week and as always we've got a couple of stocks on our radar. But we begin with the big banks, City Group Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase all out with earnings reports on Friday morning. Jason, you host the financials episode of our industry focus podcast every Monday, am I wrong or was JP Morgan's fourth quarter. The most impressive of this group. No you're definitely not wrong. I would agree with that. I mean to me, there are the big banks. And then there is JP Morgan it's the bank that stands out among the rest and I think that's for a few reasons I think when you look at the banks in total, JP Morgan City Group Wells Fargo. They were all pretty good reports in relatively speaking, right? I think JP Morgan is the bank that has performed the best throughout the past several years because of leadership primarily. I think that Jamie Dimon he's been the CEO of a company since 2,006 he has always taken this philosophy of making sure that they are never caught. Essentially asleep at the wheel, so to speak. Right there's a section on their earnings report called fortress principles. And that just goes back to the idea that they're creating a balance sheet that will let them withstand any type of economic crisis and clearly they've been through a couple. At least Wells Fargo. Clearly a story of turnaround still. I think that going into this quarter. The thing that I was watching. Most was sort of the status of all of the reserves that these banks have been putting aside here over the past several quarters based on the pandemic, the economic conditions that have come from what we've been going through going into this quarter, JP Morgan, for example, had side about 34,000,000,000 dollars in reserves and so during this quarter, they were actually able to release close to 3,000,000,000 dollars of those reserves and that's good, right that's a sign that they believe things for getting better. I think they'll continue to slowly, but surely release those reserves. A city group. Very similar story they're able to re release one and a half billion dollars in reserves. Wells Fargo, you know, this is still a turnaround story, right? I think they're doing the right things. But Mr Sharp. There has certainly been dealt a tougher deck. Anytime. You get a turn around a company it's difficult, particularly when that turn around is related to a relatively toxic culture and I think we could say that culture was toxic for a while. So a lot of respect for what they're doing at Wells Fargo they've still got a little ways to go, but all in all. I think these results portend a pretty good year for for these banks to come here. I 2,010 1 on our year in review show a few weeks ago, Ron Gross said the 2,020 was the year that the blockbuster IPO returned to Wall Street. And that trend appears to have spilled over into 2,021 because this week we saw a bunch of splashy IPOs, including shares of Poshmark rising more than 130% on its opening day. And PETCO shares of 60% on its opening day, Emily, there were other IPOs I'm curious based on what you've seen so far. What stands out to you it's funny, because as an investor, I really didn't have a lot of fear about Frosty IPOs until this week. I made it through the entirety of 2,020 but we really instilled fear. Into me as an investor is looking at PECO's IPO. Mostly because I looked at their s one when they filed it in late 2,019 and it was amazing to me, what a bad company. This was sure not to sugar code. They are turnaround story. But even in fiscal year 2,019 so Pre pandemic. This was a business that still produced more than 100,000,000 dollars in net losses. So not a sustainably profitable business. It was a business that's highly indebted owned by a PE firm. And has margins that are worse than their peers. So by no means, was this a business that I was particularly excited about? And when I heard that Petco was going public, I judged to myself as an investor in chewy, which is partly owned by pet smart thinking. This is a business that is trying to capitalize on the hype and excitement around pets during the pandemic. It's smart of them to try to get some value out of the equity during this time. But I think investors are smart enough not to buy it. And when I see shares up nearly on opening day, it occurred to me. Maybe not all investors. Jason. Another IP we saw was a firm which is a fin tech company looking to disrupt the credit card industry. Shares of a firm doubled on its opening day. What do you make of that business? I mean fintech and SAS, right? If you want to really Garner, some support from the market. Just classify yourself as a fintech or say you put those two together and the possibilities are limitless. I think in a firm's case, this is a company that's focused now on this sort of burgeoning buy now pay later market. Right? It's this market that's just really starting to come into the consumer. A mindset here and that you could buy something. Now and you can pay for it incrementally over time. And that really is what a firm is all about. They make their money a couple of different ways for merchant customers, they earn a fee when they help them, actually convert that sale. And then from consumers, they earn a little bit of interest in. Come on those loans, essentially when they're doing those buy now pay later deals. You can believe that in today's environment that's not the most attractive line of business in that interest. Income given where rates are today, but I think I part of the enthusiasm behind this company. It is something that I think I noted this on Monday's market. Full ragers, this notion. Now that consumers are really happy to turn to technology companies. They trust in order for financial services and there was a survey conducted by the Harris poll back in 2,020 we're 64% of Americans would consider purchasing or applying for financial products through a technology company's platform. Instead of a traditional financial services provider and then that sentiment actually rises to 81% Americans age between 18 and 30 40 years. And that really is the target demographic for affirms customer. So I'm not saying the valuation makes sense but I do understand the enthusiasm. Something to keep an eye on their top merchant partner is Peloton responsible for about 30% of the company's revenue right now, I would rather see them diversify away and not be so levered of one particular company. I suspect that'll come in time in addition to IPOs, it was also a week of notable secondary offerings zoom. Video announced it's going to raise one and a half billion dollars through a secondary stock offering and lemonade announced a 3,000,000 Share secondary stock offering that they are planning. Emily, you buy neither of these companies were particularly punished by the market for these secondary. Offerings and while I have my own reservations about eliminate, I think it's fair to say both Limonade and zoom investors are not investing in these businesses because they expect for them to buy back shares or issue. Dividends they're expecting growth. And so when you look at these businesses eliminate unprofitable but looking to raise money, you have to ask yourself. Okay, what is the business going to do with this money in the case of zoom they're profitable, but raising more than one and a half billion dollars investors, ask themselves. Man that's a lot of cash. What do I think zoom is going to do with one and a half billion dollars? So growth, investors are definitely expecting zoom to maybe reach out to acquire expand their product suite. So I'm looking forward to potentially some exciting acquisitions coming from zoom and in the case of lemonade, raising more than 500,000,000 dollars from their 3,000,000 SHARES additional issued they're looking at expanding their insurance suite. So getting into things like life insurance that's what investors in these businesses want to happen? Right? They want for them to continue to expand growth. Even if it is at the cost of further dilution, so neither is particularly bad. Expect for the stock to be under a little bit of pressure that's understandable but long term. If they reinvest this money to support growth, all fine and dandy like you, Emily. I was struck by the fact that on the day that both of these were announced and they were announced on the same day, shares of both companies were up typically when the average company comes out and announces a secondary stop offering. We see a little bit of a sell off is that more unsettling to you than what we saw from PECO's IPO or PECO's IPO still number one on your fear. Inducing list, Teco IPO definitely wins for number one on my fear inducing list. I think if I was an investor and businesses like Liminator zoom, I would ask myself. What are they going to do with that money if you are raising equity but you do not create value from whatever you reinvest it into and it eventually does need to turn into cash value cash creation if they're not able to do that. Then it would concern me more. But I believe especially in the case of zoom, that they'll be able to do something really smart with that money. Coming up, a consumer goods giant unveils the product launch. We never knew we wanted until right now details after the break to stay right here you're listening to Motley full money. Welcome back to Motley, full money. Chris Hill here with Jason Moser and Emily flipping a year ago, one of the big stories in the financial industry was Visa. The acquisition of PLA. A fin tech startup company in a deal. Worth more than 5,000,000,000 dollars this week Visa said the deal is off due to antitrust concerns raised by the U. S Department of justice shares a visa down 6% this week. What do you think? Jason should Visa have fought Uncle Sam to push this one through and there are just so many great Spaceballs jokes that came from this deal and I'm sorry to see a die. But I, I do think that with Visa. I think they saw the writing on the wall when regulators are already referring to you as a monopoly it's going to be an uphill battle, though. It's worth noting in November that MasterCard was allowed to buy Finity which is a very similar style business of fintech business. I think a lot of that has to do with fact MasterCard a smaller business with smaller share in the debit market and I think that was regulators concerns was the potential for visas monopoly status in the debit market that really would have been difficult to overcome with Plat acquisition because while Plad doesn't really have a status in the debit market today it's a fin tech company. It is working on building these types of tools that enable money to get from point a to point B more quickly and more cheaply. So I think on the flip, this certainly opens up another opportunity for an IPO to triple in its first day of trading because I would imagine Plat eventually is going to go public. But I do understand regulators concerns there now, with that said this is really all about the evolution of how we move money around. Technology is changing it and bringing costs down considerably that's nothing new Visa and MasterCard toll booth models, they work well today. They've worked well for a long time, but they're not UN disruptive. Right, nothing really is. This is a situation where you get a couple of companies, massive market capitalizations closing. And I think on a bet, a combined 1,000,000,000,000 dollar market capitalization with the two of them. They have a ton of resources and the ability to compete. So I don't think this is something that is devastating to Visa's business. It definitely has to kind of send it back to the drawing board to see how they want to pursue this idea going forward in regards to fintech and the way technology is changing. The space shares of beyond meet up more than this week on the news of an unlikely new partner. Taco Bell that's right. Taco Bell is looking to bring in vegetarian customers and says it will be testing a new menu item later this year with a Beyond meat product. Emily, why not, Chris? I don't appreciate your sarcasm. If I'm honest with you, the tone of your voice. The way you say Taco Bell. I feel personally a little bit attacked. I think that the people who are Taco Bell like, lifestyle enthusiasts may also feel a little bit attacked, but this is actually a great deal for Beyond meat. The reason is is because food service sales were beyond meat over the past. Few quarters have been extremely tough. And the stock's been under a lot of pressure because of the fall off from restaurant sales. As a result of the pandemic. So getting deals with fast food and fast casual restaurants is critical for bringing Beyond Meat back to growth. And the reason why this is so big. And the reason why it's up 15% on a simple deal with Taco Bell. Which is great, by the way, is because they actually won this out over competitors back in 2,019 Taco Bell met with a Beyond Meat competitor that's impossible foods to potentially roll. Something out and they decided not to take that partnership and this year going with Taco Bell going with Beyond Meat says something about its product. And I look forward to both investing and beyond meat seeing where that brings the company, but also consuming whatever delicious creation. These two companies come up with Taco Bell lifestyle. Enthusiasts can send their angry emails to me at radio tech giant Intel is getting its third CEO in the past three years. Bob Swan is stepping down next month VMware CEO Pat Gelsinger will take over it Intel, the immediate reaction from Wall Street was clear shares of Intel up 15% this week, VMware shares down 5% Jason Yeah, well, I mean, remember we're talking about JP Morgan and the advantage of having a focused leadership for so long there in Jamie Dimon. I mean, Intel that's kind of the opposite. Right 3 3 CEOs and three years that's not what you really are aiming for. I think Intel's problems, transcend leadership. I think it could be argued. Their troubles are a direct result of kind of wanting to have their cake and eat it too as a designer and a manufacturer and it's really slowed them down. And I think for Intel they really need to choose use a lane and to that point, they kind of have they've been transitioning away from a PC based company. More to a data centric company and that certainly is a very big universe data center. You go a lot of different ways with that. I think that that Mr Swan, he doesn't have the tech background that doesn't really seem ideal? So that could have been a problem conversely. You look at a company like Qualcom. For example, even outgoing CEO Mr Malincon and incoming CEO Christian man. They both have electrical engineering background, so I think that's really helped Qualcom calls through the years. I actually think that in this case for Intel. They may be thinking they need to find a meaningful acquisition as soon as possible in order to get things moving because turning things around at this stage of the game for a tech company like this one, things are already moving so quickly it's going to be really difficult. And then you look at the overall environment here Qualcomm just making an acquisition of Novia for 1.4 billion dollars. You got Invidia an arm merging Marvel acquiring Infi AMD acquiring silent. I mean they're just consolidation going on in this space and Intel it's a big company with a lot of resources. But they're kind of getting left in the dust. Here and if you look at just Qualcomm's performance compared to Intel over the last several years, Qualcomm is just leaving them in the dust. And so I think it's going to be a big challenge for Intel. And maybe new leadership is the answer because it doesn't seem like they've really found the right mind yet to take this company to the next level real quick. Pat Gelsinger does have a tech background. He was the first ever. Chief technology officer at Intel he's going back to Intel, how long before we know if he's the right person for the job a year? Well, I think years a fair number to at least start assessing because you've given them a full four quarters to report and demonstrate what the strategy is. Much more than that, though. Like I said, this space moves really fast. So they've got to really good things going exciting news this week from Unilever. The consumer product parent company of Ben and Jerry's this week. The ice cream maker is launching doggy desserts. A line of frozen treats available online and in grocery stores. Emily I saw this news and I thought, well that's cute. And then I realized, no, this isn't just cute. This is really smart business. So this is playing off of a longer term trend that we've seen in the pet space it's the same thing that's catalyzed thing, chewy and this crazy Petco IPO it's that people love their pets and that really shouldn't be a surprise. These are people who treat their pets like kids. And as results are willing to do anything. And in this case, pay anything to make their pets lives as wonderful as possible. And it's actually amazing to me that we didn't think about things like pet or dog. In this case, ice cream earlier. But this is where Ben and Jerry's is going expanding their product line into pets. The issue here isn't pet ice cream is the fact that this dog ice cream looks so good. I think I might eat it, Emily. Flipping Jason Moser will see you later in the show. Up next, a conversation with Twilio CEO Jeff Lawson. Stay right here you're listening to Motley full money to welcome back to monthly. Full money I'm Chris Hill. One of the best performing stocks over the past five years is Twilio. The cloud communications platform that adds messaging voice and video to mobile apps and apps on the web. Twilio shares have risen more than the 100% since 2,016 Jeff Lawson is a software developer who also happens to be a Co founder and the CEO of Twilio. He just published his first book. Ask your developer how to harness the power of software, developers and win in the 21 St century. He recently talked with Motley Fool Co founder David Gardner and tech analyst Tim buyers about how Twilio is organized the values that guide the company and of course, software. The amazing thing about software is that you can continually iterate on it you're never done. You can always listen to your customers and hear something better that you could be doing. Get a new feature request or even if it's something simple like making it faster or whatever there's always ways in which you can improve the software. And that creates kind of a cycle of continuous improvement. But in the market of also competition between companies who want your business and that pace of software you hear like the business world is getting in faster and faster. And a lot of that is because of software because software invites you to continually iterate and make it better and better and better to think about all those apps on your phone. They're downloading updates now, kind of silent. You don't even know it you're getting new versions of those apps pretty much every week they're fixing bugs they're getting better. And they're adding new features and functionality that are going to make your use of that app even better. So that's really, the Super power of the world of software and that's one of the re reasons why it's so important for companies to really embrace that. Because if your competitors are really embracing that and iterating quickly and running a lot of experiments to figure out what customers want and they don't want and you're not you're relatively static. You wrote the software a few years ago and you just let it sit there. Well, guess who customers are going to actually find to be a better option. The company that's always testing and iterating and getting better and better and better and that's why it becomes a little self fulfilling. You mentioned that Twilio provides the infrastructure for developers and companies to be able to do that and you're right. We arose because software, developers and the companies who employ them saw the need to work more iteratively and to move faster. And therefore infrastructure like Twilio or Amazon Web services or Stripe arose to serve those customers to enable them to meet the cadence of software and to serve their customers at Internet scale and Internet speed. But then because we exist now, more companies can get on that bandwagon. And more companies can execute with that iterative spirits. And then that makes the importance of it even more for every company. And so it would be really is folding into this whole build versus dieting. Because just the nature of business and the speed of iteration and the speed of competition has just accelerated in recent years. Because of that power of software it's just kind of built in Yeah, really well put if and you know, I think about. Well, I used to stay around the halls of foolish to whoever has the most techies wins and so I'm very much, I guess. Sympatico with you on this and that's been part of how I think about every industry when I pick stocks. So you ask the developer who has the developers, many of our viewers who have not yet gotten to see your wonderful book don't know that the title comes directly from. Well, basically, a billboard that you put outside the Silicon Valley private drive by and you were working with the marketing team and nobody came up with a good idea. And you finally just said, let's go ask the developer, which is a brilliant stroke. So this has to be one of the few books that I can think of that started with a billboard as the title eventually of the book. I want to just shift briefly to Amazon. You speak highly of Amazon, Jeff, both of your time there and where it is today, of course and that's been another long term hold for us. A great company specifically, though, Jeff, you credit Amazon for the inspiration for organizing in small teams I'm curious if you'd like to just lay that out a little bit for our members. So they can hear and understand what that means and then maybe was there another best practice that you learned from Amazon. Absolutely most companies there's a tendency as they get bigger and bigger. And bigger they slow down. They get more bureaucratic and decision making gets obfuscated and the employee base just kind of lose its energy that it might have had when it was a startup, right that's the natural tendency of companies and here's. The interesting thing about Amazon. I got hired there in 2,004 my friend Dave Chapelle hired me and the company he had started at Amazon when they were about 100 people. I got hired in companies about 5,000 people. Dave promptly quit. He was like okay I've been here long enough. He left shortly after I got there. He went and started to start up and that startup later got acquired back by Amazon and when Dave landed back at Amazon, the company was 75,000 okay, so here's this guy, my friend, Dave who's like you've been at this company. You saw it at 100 people, you saw that 5,000 people and now you see it at 75,000 people and I called him up one day. This is about 2,011 because I was starting to skill 12 and I'm. Like, how do I make some good decisions here? I said, Dave, can you compare and contrast those three versions of Amazon 100 people 5,000 people, 75,000 people because it must be totally different and you thought about it for a minute. You said, you know what it's exactly the same the same energy, the same drive, the same bounce and people step the same Intellectively employee base like it's the same company. I just I work with 100 people closest to me, I would just have no idea that there's like 75,000 other groups of those people all around the company because it feels like that same startup I joined in 19 97 and I thought that is astounding. And the secret to that is keeping it small small teams. And when you build a company when you're growing the company. The goal is to try to keep that energy. That intrinsic drive that every employee has in the early days of a startup and replicate it many many, many times over as you get bigger. And the way to do that is to continually divide the company and divide the mission of the company. Into small teams teams have no more than say 10 people and organize those teams around three things. Number one, a customer, number two. The mission for what they're trying to solve for that customer and three the metrics of success to tell you if they're actually succeeding in that an effort. And with those three things now what you've done is you've unleashed that team's ability to go Sprint for that customer every day and to go innovate and try to be as autonomous and independent as possible and in that small group setting, every member is really connected to the customer and really connected to the mission because it's small again. And you think about a small team of say, 10 people if there's a low performer on that team or someone who's checked out you're not going to get by for long in that type of environment. Whereas if you're one of 500 or people on a team you're like, yeah it's easy to kind of get lost in the shuffle. But when you're want to 10 people with a strong sense of ownership over what you're trying to accomplish somebody who's checked out won't make it very long and everybody is very close to the decision making and very close to the customer they're serving and I think that's the magic of how you scale a company. While keeping everybody really motivated, really driven and coming from a position of really understanding why they're there and what success looks like at the local level at their team. Level and, Jeff, have you just described how Twilio is organized? Yeah, so that's how we've done it as well? And I talk in the book, it sounds easier said than done, because you're like, okay. So if you're a small company or start up, okay, I got 10 people. If you're a big company you have a new initiative, maybe it's got to 10 people but then it's succeeding and it starts growing. So it becomes 20 people or 30 people are like, what do I do now, my team. That was nice and small, just got big. Well, the answer is you have to keep it's like a mitosis process. You keep dividing the team and you divide the missions and you divide. Actually, the technology like the code behind it so that you can continually dividing back into small teams. That tackle various parts of the business. But every team in that story is connected to a mission and has a lot of drive to do that thing, really well. And so I talk in the book about how you can scale something whether it's a startup or whether it's an initiative inside of a bigger company and continually divide it to keep that entrepreneurial spirit even as the company or the initiative continues to grow. Jeff, do you think that's indicative of the way you talk a little bit in the book about how you try to make the values very actionable and Twilio has if you look at it and I encourage anybody if you're an investor, thinking about investing in Twilio. Definitely take a look at the site and the list of values that Twilio has one of them is where the customer shoes you talk about this in the book and it seems like what you're talking about just there about dividing into small team is sort of a way to actionable where the customer shoes. Because if you have a huge team, most of the people can't be near the customer. But how do you make it where say, like the accountants are near to the customer, like there's only so many people that can be near to the customer could. But can you talk a little bit about this value and how you get everybody a little bit closer to the customer. Well, you know it's interesting when you think about it. Companies in the early days. Of a company I'll talk about the early days of Twilio. Yep, in any given day, like, I might be writing some code talking to a customer who's like a sales prospect supporting a customer with customer support and paying some bills. Like you're doing everything. And as companies grow, the tendency of course, is for there to be silos because people get more functional. You hire experts to do each of those things right? And there's a lot of great things about hiring. An amazing customer support team so that the developers who are building the product don't have to answer the support ticket. Obviously that is beneficial. But the problem is if you let it go too far. You end up putting these walls up that separate all the functions. And you can have a sales team who's doing sales and like their job would be to not have to bring the developers into every conversation with a customer, right? You've got sales engineers to do that right or the customer support team, there job is to answer the support tickets as opposed to having the engineers have to do it all. And if you do it perfectly, what you've done is with all good intentions. You have accidentally siloed the people building your product from the very customers they're building it for. And again, it all came from good intentions, including product managers, many product managers see their job as protecting their team from the distraction of customers. And I think the best product managers are those who see their job as facilitating interactions between their team and their customers and it's not every interaction. But if you don't poke holes in those walled silos that arise in the company, then, yes, you will isolate your team from the very customers are trying to serve. I love the story of one of the product leaders at Tulio his name is Ben and he started his career. His first job out of college was he was a developer at Bloomberg writing software for the terminals and he got there, bright eyed and bushy tailed and showed up and he said to his manager you're like, hey. So when do we get to go to a trading floor to talk to traders who are using our software and the manager kind of laughed and said, Oh that's a funny idea. Right we've never actually done that and Ben was a little Dumbfound he's like, you mean you've never met a customer that uses the software that we every day. He show up and he was like, well, not really. So Ben actually just found his own path. He went and found a friend of his. Who was a trader and he said can you mind if I stopped by one? So Ben showed up at the trading floor and they had always assumed that their widget that they were building. Like, they spent every day buiding this widget. They assumed it was the full 27 inch screen was their beautiful widget. Well, it turns out that the trader had and some time you little 16 by 16 bucks in the corner of their screen and it wasn't even legible. You couldn't read the fonts and it was completely different than how they imagined their software was used and it wasn't until they actually went and interacted with a customer that they actually found out. And then that changed their roadmap, entirely, we got to make fonts that work at small scale. We got to change the and all these things happen. So I share that example in the book because it's a really good example of what happens when you actually don't win. Those walls between you and the customer are so tall that you actually have no idea how your customers actually using your product. And so as leaders, I think it's our job to intentionally poke holes in those walls that separate our teams. From the customers they serve, Jeff Lawson's book is ask your developer how to harness the power of software, developers and win in the 21 St entry it's. Already an Amazon bestseller, so check it out when you can. Up next, Emily flipping and Jason Mosa return with a couple of stocks on their radar don't go anywhere you're listening to mode. Full money was one for a moment in time and it's everlasting that you will always be. As always. People on the program may have interest in the stocks they talk about in the monthly for may have formal recommendation for or against don't. Buy our sell stocks based sold on what you hear Welcome back to Motley. Full money, Chris Hill here once again with Jason Moser and Emily Flippin let's dip into the full mail bag before we get to the stocks on our radar. Our email address is radio at fool. Com I know the Taco Bell lifestyle enthusiasts are already typing out their emails, but we also take stock questions like this one from Kyle Newberger who writes love the show, keep it coming. This question may seem simple. But in your experience, when should you sell a stock if ever. A great question. Kyle. Thank you for that, Jason. This is one we get often from people because it's one of those things, particularly in the wake of where are we now year 11 year 12 of by and large a bull market. People who are sitting on some gains are trying to figure out whether or not they should sell at least some of their stocks. Yeah, I mean it's something that I think we all think about it. It may seem like a simple question. But really, I think it's far more nuanced. And when we look at insiders, for example, that own stakes and the companies that they lead we talk about those Insider transactions we kind of say. And Peter literally really popularize is one reason to buy you got many, many reasons to sell. And that really is the bottom line is there are many, many reasons to it does depend on the individual where they are in their life. I think just a general rule of thumb, though, if you're sort of younger investor with a lot of time in front of you. You look at selling a stock number one. Have the reasons that you bought it change right are the reasons you purchase that stock in the first place? Have those reasons changed if they have? Then you do a little bit more of an assessment there. Do you feel like still offers opportunity? If it doesn't I mean, there could be some reasons to sell there. If the thesis is broken on the reasons have changed but clearly there are going to be many many more reasons. Someone needs to consider it and it really kind of depends on where you are in your life and kind of what you need to do with that money. What your investing goals really are, Emily. Obviously some people if they've been investing for a while, maybe they look at the stocks that aren't doing as well in their portfolio and look to sell those off. Sometimes for tax reasons, how do you think about selling? Yes, well, there are two biggest mistakes that investors can make. One is not buying companies that end up being disruptors. And game changers that become the next Amazon and Netflix. And the second one is selling those companies too early. So if you're an investor is looking at their portfolio and feeling the need to sell for issues of valuation. Just remember that good companies that our disruptors are hard to value for a reason and they end up growing longer and faster than many people expect. So that alone, in my opinion isn't a good reason to sell. But what is a good reason to sell is when the thesis for only the company has changed. Maybe that means that it's been a bad performer anything to yourself. This money could better be invested in a disruptor in a company that I have higher conviction that's a perfectly fine reason. Or another perfectly fine reason is if you find yourself staying up at night worrying about companies because they've come such a large part of your portfolio. If you find yourself constantly a friend of the fact that you have maybe of your portfolio and Shopify just to name one. Even though you believe in Shopify. I think selling that to get it to the point where you're not losing sleep when you're not feeling stressed over your allocation is also a perfectly fine reason. We got just a couple of minutes left. Let's get to the socks on our radar. Jason Europe first, Dan boy is going to hit you with a question. What are you looking at this week? Yeah I've been digging into a company called penumbra ticker is pen and this is a global healthcare company. That designs develops manufacturers and markets. Medical devices and technology focused on Neurovascular and cardiovascular applications. The numbers are pretty astounding, actually. On a global basis stroke is the second leading cause of death. The third leading cause of serious long term disability. And that really is the problem that penumbra is trying to tackle founder led business cofounders there still in a little bit of a stake in the company. I think it's really neat. But what really has my attention? Is this real immersive system that they developed it's an advanced rehabilitation technology that uses virtual reality for therapeutic activities. So you talk about folks who have strokes and the need rehabilitation while they're trying to tackle that using immersive technology. And so it has definitely got my attention. It says the management that it represents by far, the largest total market opportunity. That pin number has ever taken on. So got my attention. Dan question about penumbra. Yeah, sure, Jason. It looks like late last year penumbra had some recall issues. Is that anything to worry about going forward? It is something always to keep an eye on with medical device makers recalls or kind of part and parcel of the business. It does look like something that they have. You know accounted for. But but it's always something to keep in mind it's a risk that comes with these types of companies for sure. Emily flipping what are you looking at? If I was smart, I would have talked about bark box today with all the bad news. But the company that's on my radar this week is actually Pinterest with all the excitement that Poshmark is getting in the news it's reminding me about Pinterest which is a social media meets ecommerce business that I like a lot more than Poshmark. Pinterest has over 400,000,000 monthly active users and it's just at the precipice of effectively monetizing that audience. Dan. Not really a question. Chris. More of a comment. Pinterest terrifies me because I know whenever my wife is on it, it means that an impending large purchase is going to happen. Maybe that means it's a good business. It does, Dan I'm assuming you never make large purchases of any kind. What do you want to add to your watch list this week? Listen, man I've seen it happen. So many times I'm going with Pinterest. I think they're onto something over there. All right, Jason Moser. Emily flipping thanks for being here. Thank you, thanks for having me. That's going to do it for this week's show. The show's mixed by Dan Boyd. Our producers Mac career I'm Chris health. Thanks for listening we'll see you next week.