Move custom central server drop-down to connection dialog

[jp8]

Hi Volker - would you consider moving this setting to the connection dialog, instead of the settings dialog?
Personally, any time I need to change to a different central server, I am already on the connection dialog.
It could even be integrated with the drop-down that lists the 'fixed' central servers....

[corrados]

The list selection combo box in the connection dialog only contains fixed entries. A combo box either has fixed entries or you can edit the content. A mixture is usually not a good thing. We would require additional GUI controls.

One problem is that there are a lot of tutorials which describe to set the server list to "Custom". If we change this, all these tutorials are no longer valid.

BTW: I have implemented a direct update of the list already. I.e., if you have the connection dialog and the settings dialog both open and you have the list selection set to Custom; if you then change the Custom Central Server Address, the server list is updated immediately.

[jp8]

I'm usually working on a 1024x768 screen, so would prefer if i didn't have to find settings on 2 different dialogs.

Once a user has entered a new custom server, there doesn't seem to be a way to remove it. Therefore they are all 'fixed' entries. Any use case for removing previously entered custom values probably extends to removing the 'fixed' initial entries too.

I think most of the tutorials that people are using are 'living' documents, and are likely to be edited to include changes and enhancements in Jamulus. My own experience is no matter how clear I make the tutorial, many users end up with the custom central server value in the wrong field anyway. They put it in the Server Address field on the connection dialog.

In fact, I would welcome a single 'custom server' entry. After entering a custom server, the Jamulus client would detect the type of server

Simple server -> just connect to it
Central server -> add it to the drop-down, auto-select it, and present the user with the list of attached servers.

[LauraMardones]

Jurriaan and I spent the better part of an hour trying to get a WHOLE BUNCH of people to understand the concept of a custom central server. This feature is one of the most important and most counter-intuitive functions of Jamulus.

(In the end, we just gave up, and moved the whole rehearsal into the central server, where all these people were stuck - Mohammed vs Mountain.)

So consider the User Journey here. If I'm at the point where I understand I need to CONNECT to a server, then all the interaction related to connecting to servers should be found in that one Dialogue Window called "Connection setup".

The case in point is this: a lot of users incorrectly type up the custom central server address in the "Server address" field in Connection setup. Even if they afterwards DO find the Settings window, and input the custom server address in the correct field, the same address is STILL remembered in the "Server address" of the Connection Setup window. The hapless, user, having filled out the same information in several places, has no idea what goes where now, and starts pushing the Connect button over and over again - always landing directly inside the central server, never managing to find the dropdown list and the servers in the custom central server...

There has to be a better way to poka-yoke this step.

[kezzy1966]

Laura, I think your suggestion would be nice thing to have and I really understand the difficulties of managing a choir with Jamulus. This is an excellent product but it was not specifically designed/ written for large choirs. It has been adapted to accommodate them.

At this point of its development, everyone using it needs to take time to learn how to drive it. So in your example, how to change the CCSA in 'Settings'.

Personally I would like to see a comprehensive discussion of all changes required to effectively manage large choir. I have raised some points already in GIT HUB specifically for management of large groups.

Perhaps there could be a specific section on jamulus.io for 'running a choir'. That would be a user friend

[wschell]

My english is not so good, maybe I have missed something in the previous posts.
What about this workflow: If I enter a custom central-server-adress in the connection dialog-field, jamulus will detect this, shows an optional ([ ] don't show this message again) dialog box, informing the user and if the user accepts, this server would be added to the custom-server-list in the settings-dialog and selected. The server type changes to custom.
Additional, in the adress-combolist, custom servers could be marked i.e. with a "*" or in bold or italic or something like that.
In the future there would be no need for the custom-server-list in the settings dialog.
What do you think about it?

Edit: This would elminate the difference between custom server and custom central server - which from a users view is more technical. The user just want to connect.

[jugo6]

I was with Laura on the big Xmas Choir. I think we lost a couple of people who tried figuring out the central server. Of course there is a certain amount to blame on them. We gave a detailed instruction what to do where, but even the highest educated people just do something (perhaps especially the academics... :-) ) . Another handicap was, that we had people from 10 countries, and instructions in only English.

Part 2 of the problem Laura said might even be bigger: by clicking connect, you will always go to the server adress (IP), and doubleclicking is a bit tricky because servers are moving in the list sometimes (ping).

Might it be an idea (though radical) to move all those things to below the list:
(or above) so that related items end next to each other?

List Custom Central Server Adress
[dropdown] [fill in / drop down]

---

list
list

---

filter [fill in ] [x] show all musicians
Direct Server Adress [fill in / drop down]

[jugo6]

Perhaps there could be a specific section on jamulus.io for 'running a choir'. That would be a user friend

We do have a facebook group Jamulus Choral Community for choir related things

[corrados]

Jurriaan and I spent the better part of an hour trying to get a WHOLE BUNCH of people to understand the concept of a custom central server.

I guess we are talking about non-techies here. So any interaction with any GUI is critical. Moving a GUI control from one place to another does not solve the issue.

There are different solutions for the problem possible. E.g. you could create a Windows shortcut which loads a pre-configured ini-file (i.e. the shortcut calls Jamulus with the --inifile command line flag). The shortcut together with the pre-defined ini file should then sent to them via, e.g., email. A simple click on the shortcut will then configure Jamulus correctly. In the inifile even the selected server list is stored so you could set the correct Custom Central Server Address and also set the Server List to Custom. So the user does not need to configure anything.

If even the double click on the server list is too complicated, then you could additionally use the -c command line argument where Jamulus automatically connects to a server address on startup. I guess the choral servers are cloud servers with fixed IP addresses so the -c command line argument should work just fine.

You could create your own Windows Jamulus installer by putting the ini-file and shortcut in the installer. A long time ago someone just did this successfully (before pandemic, actually).

[houbsta]

Here's just an idea on how there could be a mirror of the current settings within the connection window also:

I think there is a lack of clarity because "custom server" is a different thing from "Server Name" or "Server Address" hence the addition of a label to try to clarify a little.

[houbsta]

Also I just thought: the "Server Address" dropdown should contain history of all servers connected to, not just those that you type / paste in yourself. That would be more coherent. A single click on a server in the list should populate the "server address" field. That will eliminate errors and confusion.

[LauraMardones]

I like Houbstas proposal. It doesn't solve the big problem of the techiness of Jamulus, but at least it's slightly more intuitive.

[LauraMardones]

I guess we are talking about non-techies here. So any interaction with any GUI is critical. Moving a GUI control from one place to another does not solve the issue.

Fair point.

There are different solutions for the problem possible. E.g. you could create a Windows shortcut which loads a pre-configured ini-file (i.e. the shortcut calls Jamulus with the --inifile command line flag). The shortcut together with the pre-defined ini file should then sent to them via, e.g., email. A simple click on the shortcut will then configure Jamulus correctly. In the inifile even the selected server list is stored so you could set the correct Custom Central Server Address and also set the Server List to Custom. So the user does not need to configure anything.

That's a really intriguing solution! I will try that for my next Jamulus event. <3

[hoffie]

@dcorson-ticino-com Do you know if this is something which is covered by the UI redesign? Should we keep this issue open?